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越南网友提问道:为什么看起来每个越南人都想移居西方?

2022-11-28 11:04:47 3004

摘要:一个国家的移民水平有很大一部分说明了国家的富有程度,可是有一些国家虽然国家整体并不富裕,可是移民海外的群体很多,甚至许多都是移民到了富有的美国,越南就是这样的国家。越南整个国家目前的经济发展比较落后,越南国内有9500万左右的人口,可是生活...

一个国家的移民水平有很大一部分说明了国家的富有程度,可是有一些国家虽然国家整体并不富裕,可是移民海外的群体很多,甚至许多都是移民到了富有的美国,越南就是这样的国家。越南整个国家目前的经济发展比较落后,越南国内有9500万左右的人口,可是生活在美国的越南人高达200万,占亚裔美国人很大比例。在美版知乎Quora上,越南网友提问道:为什么看起来每个越南人都想移居西方?这引起各国网友的关注和热议,我们看看他们的观点。

问题


越南网友的回答

If you travel to Vietnam, I"m sure you can"t see both good and bad aspects. Although I really appreciate that you would politely say Vietnam is OK, "not so bad", in order to answer this question, I may have to tell you how bad Vietnam is.

如果你去越南旅行,所以我敢肯定你看不全好的和坏的方面。虽然我真的很感激你会客套说越南还可以,“没有那么糟糕”,但为了回答这个问题,我可能不得不告诉你越南有多糟糕。

How do you think it can be "bad" enough to make people want to emigrate? Political issues? environmental problems? Social welfare issues? Vietnam has all these problems.

你会想怎么能“坏”到足以让人想移民?政治问题?环境问题?社会福利问题?这些问题越南都有。

Listen, we love our country. Speaking of the country, I mean what nature has given us: land, oceans, atmosphere, natural resources and beautiful scenery. We like many aspects of culture (although some are conventional and backward). We love our language, we like our food very much, and most importantly, we love our family here, and we love Vietnam.

听着,我们爱我们的国家。说到国家,我指的是大自然赋予我们的东西:土地、海洋、大气、自然资源和美丽的风景。我们喜欢文化的许多方面(虽然有些是俗套而落后的)。我们热爱我们的语言,我们非常喜欢我们的美食,最重要的是,我们爱这里的家人,我们热爱越南。

However, we may want to leave. Even those who have not planned yet will occasionally have such thoughts. Many people will go abroad to live as soon as they have a chance. Why?

然而,我们可能想离开。即使是那些还没有计划好的人,偶尔也会有这样的想法。许多人会一有机会就跑到国外生活,为什么会这样?

Because the environment here, whether natural or political, is not suitable for living. People do not trust the authorities. The corruption rate is the worst in the world. The bad infrastructure is not because they do not have money to improve it (investment such as ODA is huge), but because politicians have been stealing money into their own pockets and the use of investment is inefficient. Now, the environmental problem has appeared again. The biggest scandal in the environmental field happened recently: a steel factory named FORMOSA admitted that it threw tons of toxic waste into land and water, causing the death of a large number of fish.

因为这里的环境,无论是自然环境还是政治环境,都不适合居住。人们不信任当局,腐败率是世界上最差的,糟糕的基础设施,并不是因为他们没有钱来改善它(像官方发展援助这样的投资是巨大的),而是政客们一直把钱偷到自己的口袋里,而且投资的使用效率很低。现在,环境问题又出现了,环境方面最大的丑闻发生在最近:一家名为FORMOSA的钢铁厂承认向陆地和水中投掷了数吨有毒废物,导致大量鱼类死亡。

It is estimated that the toxic waste discharged into the sea by FORMOSA will damage the entire coastal ecosystem, which will take several years to recover. In addition, it is reported that fish in the sea area have been poisoned, so if we eat them, they will be poisoned. We never know whether our food is healthy. I don"t think I need to tell you how serious the problems of water pollution and air pollution caused by industrialization are. Due to the extensive use of chemical fertilizers in agriculture, most of the food we eat is considered to be toxic to some extent.

据估计,FORMOSA排放到海洋中的有毒废物会破坏海岸的整个生态系统,需要数年才能恢复。此外,据报道,该海域的鱼类已经中毒,因此如果我们食用,就会中毒。我们永远不知道我们的食物是否健康。我想我不需要告诉你工业化带来的水污染和空气污染问题有多严重。由于农业中大量使用化肥,我们吃的大多数食物在某种程度上被认为是有毒的。

For most people, health care is expensive and corruption is pervasive. (The rich and officials enjoy the preferential access to medical resources, and this kind of corruption can be seen everywhere.).

对大多数人来说,医疗费用昂贵,腐败无处不在。(富豪和官员享有医疗资源优先享用权,这种腐败随处可见)。

If you live in Vietnam just to enjoy life, it"s still good. But when problems occur, such as when you are sick or in legal trouble, you will see problems. It seems that young people can hardly see the future.

如果你住在越南只是为了享受生活,那还是很不错的。但当问题发生时,比如你生病了,或者遇到了法律麻烦,你会看到问题,年轻人似乎很难看到未来。

I"m not saying it"s right or wrong to want to escape this country. Of course, Vietnam is not all bad, just as the West is not all good. But people do have reasons. Regardless of their cynicism, it is still reasonable that this country urgently needs change.

我并不是说想要逃离这个国家是对还是错。当然,越南也不全是坏的,就像西方也不全好一样。但人们确实有理由。不管是他们愤世嫉俗,这还是有道理的,这个国家迫切需要变革。


越南网友的回答

Because living in Vietnam is like living in an abused family, dominated by manipulative, selfish and stupid politicians. Imagine if your father pesters you every day, earns little money, and uses your hard earned money to buy wine. He scolds you and says:

因为生活在越南就像生活在一个被虐待的家庭里,被操纵欲强的、自私的和愚蠢的政客支配。想象一下,如果你的父亲每天都缠着你,挣的钱很少,还用你辛苦挣来的钱来买酒,一边痛斥你,一边说:

_ I do this because I love you and everything I do is for you.

_我这样做是因为我爱你,我所做的一切都是为了你。

When you fight back, they will say:

当你反击时,他们会说:

_ It is your responsibility to love your family, and family comes first.

_爱你的家人是你的责任,家庭是第一位的。

They hold all power and capital. They use this advantage for their own benefit, while ordinary people suffer.

他们掌握着一切权力和资本。他们利用这一优势为自己谋取利益,而普通人却在受苦。

I can live in a polluted environment.

我可以生活在污染的环境中。

I can live in a poor country.

我可以住在一个贫穷的国家。

I can live in a community with low education.

我可以住在一个低学历的社区。

I love my family, my people and my community. Many people do. We live as a whole, and we Vietnamese people do not advocate individualism like the western people. We live as a community and care about each other. It is painful to leave your community or your family to live in a foreign land.

我爱我的家人,我的人民,我的社区。很多人都这样。我们作为一个整体生活,我们越南人民不像西方人民那样崇尚个人主义。我们作为一个社区生活,彼此关心。离开你的社区或你的家人去异乡定居是很痛苦的。

As long as the government is willing to solve problems and truly cares about the people, the people will stay.

只要政府愿意解决问题,真正关心人民,人民就会留下来。

But they didn"t. They only care about their so-called lofty ideals.

但他们没有。他们只关心自己所谓崇高的理想。

That"s why many people want to leave. We cannot live with a government that is insane, morally corrupt and selfish. Those who still have hope for this country are:

这就是为什么很多人想离开。我们不能与一个精神错乱、道德败坏和自私的政府生活在一起。对这个国家还抱有希望的人是:

-Ignorance, do not know the pain of others.

-无知,不知道他人的痛苦。

-Benefit from a corrupted system.

-从腐坏的系统中获益。

-Still believe that they can help improve and develop society (like me).

-仍然相信他们可以帮助改善和发展社会(就像我一样)。


越南网友的回答

This question reminds me of my dating life not long ago. You know? I have a crush on a girl, and she knows I like her. Unfortunately, I"m not very good at talking with girls, so no matter what I do, she doesn"t give me any response. In the end, we parted ways and embarked on a different path.

这个问题让我想起了不久前的约会生活。你知道的?我暗恋一个女孩,她也知道我喜欢她。不幸的是,我不太擅长与女孩交谈,所以无论我做什么,她都没有给我任何回应。最终,我们分道扬镳,走上了不同的道路。

In retrospect, if she chose me, she may make me a very happy person, but at the same time she may question this choice for the rest of her life, so it will affect our relationship and make our future life worse. On the contrary, it may be the best thing in our relationship that she chose to leave me, because I didn"t have the courage to leave her, which destroyed my life in the process.

现在回想起来,如果她选择了我,她可能会让我成为一个非常幸福的人,但同时她可能会在余生中质疑这个选择,因此这会影响我们的关系,使我们以后的生活变得更糟。相反,她选择离开我可能是我们关系中最好的事情,因为我没有勇气离开她,在这个过程中毁了我的生活。

I feel the same way about immigration. Whether at home or abroad, there are a group of people who do not want Vietnam to move forward. No matter what the government does, they will not change their minds. For them, the biggest enemy is the Vietnamese government. These people all want to escape the country as soon as possible. Fortunately, since the early 1990s, they have been free to leave the country, either through an orderly departure plan (for partners of the South Vietnamese government) or through the student road.

回到移民的问题,我有同样的感觉。无论是国内还是海外,都有一群人不希望越南向前发展,无论政府做什么,他们都不会改变主意。对他们来说,最大的敌人是越南政府。这些人都想尽快逃离这个国家。幸运的是,从20世纪90年代初开始,无论是通过有序离境计划(针对南越政府的合作者)还是学生道路,他们都可以自由离开该国。

For example, after the recent Trinh Hsuan Thanh incident, until now, Vietnamese organizations in Germany have still sent letters to the German government asking for an embargo on Vietnamese, which will indirectly affect me and my family, as well as all the people of Vietnam. I think if they really want freedom and democracy in Vietnam, they will not do so.

例如,最近在Trinh Hsuan Thanh事件发生后,直到现在,在德国仍有越南裔组织致函德国政府,要求对越南人实施禁运,这将间接影响到我和我的家人,以及越南的全体人民。我想,如果他们真正想要的是越南的自由和民主,他们不会这么做。

Let"s look at the real reason behind the move: people want to live in a better place.

让我们来看看搬家背后的真正原因:人们希望生活在一个更好的地方。

Not only Vietnam, but also a large number of people want to immigrate to the United States every year. According to the data of the Institute of Immigration Policy, 41.3 million people currently living in the United States are immigrants, 48% of whom report that their race is white, 26% are Asian (possibly in the Indian and Chinese circles), 9% are black, and 15% are of other races. Even Elon Musk was an immigrant. There are rumors that Arnold Schwarzenegger is an illegal immigrant.

不仅是越南,每年都有大批人想移居美国。根据移民政策研究所的数据,目前居住在美国的4130万人是移民,其中48%的人报告他们的种族是白人,26%的人是亚裔(可能在印度圈和华人圈属于这一类),9%的人是黑人,15%的人是其他种族。甚至埃隆·马斯克也是移民。有传言称阿诺德·施瓦辛格是非法移民。

It is reported that in Europe, there are 32.5 million foreigners in the 27 EU countries, equivalent to 6.5% of the total population. Most of them, i.e. 20.2 million, are nationals of third countries (i.e. citizens of non EU countries), while the remaining 12.3 million are citizens of another member state.

据报道,在欧洲,欧盟27国有3250万外国人,相当于总人口的6.5%。其中大多数,即2020万,是第三国国民(即非欧盟国家的公民),其余1230万是另一个成员国的公民。

When asked why they want to leave Vietnam, one of the reasons I always hear people talk about is that they don"t want to live in a country with corrupt officials, traffic chaos and environmental pollution. Their reason may be true, but I doubt that the reason is just an excuse. When Vietnam becomes a middle-income country, people will come back in droves, just like China.

当被问及为什么要离开越南时,我总是听到人们谈论的一个原因是,他们不想生活在一个官员腐败、交通混乱、环境污染的国家。他们的理由可能是真的,但我怀疑,原因只是一个借口,当越南成为高中等收入国家时,人们会成群结队地回来,就像中国一样。

From my point of view, as a law-abiding citizen, I always receive worse treatment than those who oppose the Vietnamese government, and still have milk for my children.

从我的观点来看,作为一个守法的公民,我总是比那些反对越南政府的人受到的待遇更差,还是会叫的孩子有奶吃。


越南网友的回答

People in every country want to move. However, now more and more people are able to do this, which is becoming more and more popular in Vietnam. They either have money or the skills they need to survive in a foreign environment. In other words, they are the upper class of Vietnam. I can think of the reasons why some wealthier people want to move out:

每个国家都有人想搬走。然而,现在越来越多的人有能力这样做,这在越南越来越流行。他们要么有钱,要么有在外国环境中生存所需的技能。换句话说,他们是越南上层阶级。我能想到一些更富裕的人想要搬出去的原因:

-Government: The corruption rate in Vietnam is very high, and it is unlikely to improve soon. People have lost their trust in the government and their belief that they can take action to change it. When you can"t change the status quo, you"d better quit.

-政府:越南的腐败率很高,不太可能很快改善。人们已经失去了对政府的信任,也失去了可以采取行动来改变的信念。当你无法改变现状时,最好退出。

-Low standard of living: even with money, life here will be very difficult. You can easily see pollution, food hygiene and bad business practices in the media. People do not feel safe and protected about these things. They often compare the living conditions here with those of more developed countries such as Singapore, Australia, the United States, and even Thailand and Malaysia.

-生活水平低:即使有钱,这里的生活也会很艰难。你很容易在媒体上看到污染、食品卫生和不良商业行为等问题。人们对这些事情并不感到安全和保护,经常将这里的生活条件与新加坡、澳大利亚、美国等更发达国家,甚至泰国和马来西亚等国家进行比较。

-People: The ordinary people are still not well educated. Bad habits are everywhere. People will not apologize even if they do something wrong, and decency and politeness have not been popularized. Overseas Vietnamese intellectuals are generally angry at the behavior of other people and think that this is one of the biggest reasons why they do not want to return.

-人民:普通民众仍然没有受过很好的教育。坏习惯无处不在。人们即使做错了什么也不会道歉,得体和礼貌并未得到普及。海外越南知识分子普遍对其他人的行为感到愤怒,认为这是他们不想回来的最大原因之一。

-Tradition: Vietnam is a conservative society with many traditions and social norms. It destroys individual growth and is conducive to group integration. This is also very unfair to women, which has brought them too much burden and responsibility, unable to balance family and work. The trend of Vietnamese upper class women marrying foreigners is growing, so they do not have to fully cope with this situation.

-传统:越南是一个保守的社会,有许多传统和社会规范。它破坏了个人成长,有利于群体整合。这对妇女也非常不公平,给她们带来了太多的负担和责任,无法兼顾家庭和工作。越南上流社会女性嫁给外国人的趋势越来越大,这样她们就不必完全应付这种情况。

-Transfer money out: Some people migrate to find a safe haven for their money. This may be money earned through illegal means, or it may be money that needs to be protected to prevent Vietnam"s unstable banking system.

-把钱转移出去:有些人移民是为了给他们的钱找一个避风港。这可能是通过非法途径赚取的钱,也可能是需要保护的钱,以防越南不稳定的银行体系。

Whatever the reason, this country is not as good as you think, which is a painful fact. This is a good place to visit, but it"s not pleasant to stay for a long time. We can do many things to improve the life here, but once there is a good opportunity to move, it is hard to refuse.

不管是什么原因,这个国家并没有你想象的那么好,这是令人痛苦的事实。这是一个游览的好地方,但长时间逗留不太愉快。我们可以做很多事情来改善这里的生活,但一旦有好的机会搬家,就很难拒绝。


越南网友的回答

There are many reasons why people want to move to the United States or European countries. I will just give a few examples.

人们想移居美国或欧洲国家的原因有很多,我只举几个例子。

1. People yearn for European and American life. When I was in Vietnam, I heard people bragging about how much money they made. American life is paradise.

1.人们向往欧美的生活。当我在越南时,我听到人们吹嘘他们赚了多少钱,美国的生活就是天堂。

2. Better higher education. Vietnam"s pre university education is one of the best IMO. However, university is not a good place. That"s why people send their children to America for better education. Some of them married Americans and brought their families over.

2.更好的高等教育。越南的大学前教育是最好的IMO之一。然而,大学并不是好的地方。这就是为什么人们把孩子送到美国接受更好的教育。他们中的一部分人和美国人结婚,将他们的家人也接过来。

3. More opportunities. Vietnam is still a developing country, so there are not many job opportunities, especially in advanced fields. Most people go to business schools and find jobs in banking or related fields.

3.更多机会。越南仍然是一个发展中国家,因此没有太多的工作机会,尤其是在先进领域。大多数人会去商学院,在银行或相关领域找到工作。

4. The system relies too much on contacts rather than talents. Although it will be easier to find a job in the United States if you also have contacts, it will be more difficult to find a good job in Vietnam if you do not know the people in the system. You may eventually work for some people who have political power but do not have this knowledge. It is less likely that this will happen to foreign companies.

4.系统过于依赖人脉而非人才。虽然如果你也有人脉,在美国找工作会更容易,但如果你不了解体制内的人,在越南找一份好工作会更难。你最终可能会为一些拥有政治权力却没有这方面知识的人工作,外国公司发生这种事的可能性较小。

My family emigrated to the United States because of immigration. I dropped out two years after I graduated from Vietnam"s economic school. I went to MIT to study engineering, found a job where I wanted to go, and pursued my dream freely. So I think America is better for me.

我的家人因为移民而移居美国。我从越南的经济学校毕业两年后就退学了。我去了麻省理工学院学习工程学,在我想去的地方找到工作,自由地追求我的梦想,所以我认为美国对我来说更好。

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